Sa Melabrina and the Sardinia's Monumental Trees

This Old Tree with Doug Still
Sa Melabrina and Sardinia's Monumental Trees - Transcript
Season 3, Episode 6
May 5, 2026

Doug Still  00:00
You're listening to This Old Tree, the show about heritage trees and the human stories behind them, and a sponsored project of New England ISA.

A crowd of 100 people gathered deep in a mountain forest in central Sardinia, an island off the west coast of Italy, near the small town of Illorai. We were about to listen to a poem. About a tree. 

(murmur of a crowd outdoors)

Gianluca Grande  00:24
(loudly) Signori! Signori! Per Favore!

Doug Still  00:30
That was the young mayor of Illoria, Gianluca Grande, a born leader and organizer. And the tree was standing right next to us, a 900 year old Downy Oak they call Sa Melabrina, the oldest and largest of its kind in all of Europe. The huge, gnarly, wide-spreading tree was covered in moss and ferns, reaching out to surrounding trees like a matriarch among her children. Fulgenzio Piras was invited to read a poem written by Ignazio Camarda, an esteemed professor of botany from the nearby University of Sassari. He was a scholar of Sardinian flora and a champion of the island's heritage trees. Sadly, he passed away during the previous winter. His poem was about Sa Melabrina, entitled “Su chercu pius bellu,” or “The Most Beautiful Oak.” It was written in Sardu, the ancient language of Sardinia.

Fulgenzio Piras  01:31
(reading poem) 

Doug Still  01:39
What brought us to this place? The mayor had organized a conference about monumental trees, an official designation in Italy for trees of crucial botanical or cultural importance. It drew people from all over Sardinia, mainland Italy, and beyond. Gianluca had help from Professor Gianluigi Bacchetta, Professor of Botany and Conservation Biology at the island's other major university, the University of Cagliari. I got to interview them both about their mission to recognize and promote Sardinia's monumental trees as a unified network worth visiting. There are hundreds of them.

Fulgenzio Piras  02:17
(more reading of “Su chercu pius bellu”)

Doug Still  02:23
I also found out even more is at stake than preserving these wonderful old trees. Illorai and other rural towns are shrinking. Depopulation is a slowly creeping challenge threatening the authentic character of the Sardinian way of life from within and without. We've heard many stories on this show where a local community comes together to save a town's historic tree. But Sardinia's leaders ask a new type of question: can monumental trees save its small towns? 

This is the story of Sa Melabrina and the monumental trees of Sardinia. I'm Doug Still, and this is This Old Tree.

[This Old Tree theme song - Dee Lee]  03:07

[Choral Music - Illorai Choral Ensemble]

Doug Still  03:29
“We shall not cease from exploration 
And the end of all our exploring 
Will be to arrive where we started 
And know the place for the first time.”  
-  T.S. Eliot (from "The Little Gidding") 

Something is brewing in Sardinia, and it involves ancient trees. Not just one, all of them. Monumental trees as they are designated. They’ve been there all along, in the countryside watching generations, and even civilizations, come and go. Some trees have stood for millenia. 

But a new conversation is starting about them, and between them in a way. That leads me to introduce Gianluca Grande, the person now leading the conversation. He spearheaded and hosted the conference on Monumental Trees in Illorai last November. He was incredibly kind to invite me to speak at the conference. As you might remember, I had JUST been in Sardinia several months before to report on the 4,000 yr-old olive tree called S’Ozzastru. But Gianluca was persistent and persuasive about a return visit. “You must see our great tree Sa Melabrina,” he said in an email, “it is truly special with a great story.” He sent me the background information and answered my questions as my interest grew. Before we even met, we became great friends over our love of trees. 

We met up recently on Zoom to talk more about what it was all about.  

Doug Still
Hello Gianluca, it’s so nice to see you again.

Gianluca Grande  05:05
Hi, Doug, it's my pleasure.

Doug Still  05:07
Thanks so much for inviting me to the conference on monumental trees and the warm hospitality you showed me. It's hard to imagine feeling more welcome by you and your team.

Gianluca Grande  05:19
Well, thank you for coming all the way from the States to Sardinia. Thanks a lot. It was a great honor to have you with us in the conference. And yeah, the hospitality in Sardinia is kind of like a tradition. Whoever comes that is a foreigner, we try to make him feel like home. And I hope that you felt that way too.

Doug Still  05:43
Yeah, I loved it. I loved it. How would you describe Illoria, and where is it situated?

Gianluca Grande  05:50
Illorai is a small town in the north center of Sardinia. It is inside an historical region that is called Goceano. It sits about 500 to 600 meters from sea level on the upper course of the Tirso River, and is surrounded by highlands and forests and archeological sites.

Doug Still  06:17
What's the main mountain nearby?

Gianluca Grande  06:20
The main mountain is Monte Pisano, which is in the municipality of Bono, a nearby town, one of the tallest peaks in Sardinia.

Doug Still  06:34
Illorai is charming and special. It sits halfway up a mountain, with panoramic views over the agricultural plains below. It is sort of an entryway village into the mountains of Goceano from the neighboring region. Rich in ancient archeological sites, it contains a Roman bridge known as Ponte Ezzu; recently discovered neolithic chamber tombs called the Molias Domus de Janas which means “fairy houses;” and of course several nuraghi, which are bronze age towers built of stone by the mysterious Nuragic Civilization 3500 years ago. The residents who live in Illorai are from families that date back many generations. 

(to Gianluca)
How far back does your family go in Illoria?

Gianluca Grande  07:22
Way back, I don't really know, probably centuries. But yeah, my great-great grandfather was from Illorai. Actually, from my mother’s side, my great grandpa was from the south of Sardinia. He was working on the railway construction, and so we moved from the south of Sardinia - was a town near Cagliari, to lllorai.

Doug Still  07:57
I see. So it was the railroads that brought your mother's family to your area now.

Gianluca Grande  08:03
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Doug Still  08:05
Now you grew up in a Illorai, correct?

Gianluca Grande  08:08
Yeah. I was born in Canada, in Ontario, Sarnia. But I grew up in Illorai ‘till I was 16 years old. Then I moved to Sassari to study.

Doug Still  08:19
Like most young people, he left home for higher education and to find more opportunities. He studied abroad, eventually earning a degree in landscape architecture.

Gianluca Grande  08:29
Since then, I moved around. I’ve lived in Turin, London, UK, and then I spent the last 10 years in Canada and Vancouver, BC.

Doug Still  08:42
Unlike most of his childhood friends, though, Gianluca returned to his hometown in his mid 30s to start his own family. For him, the reconnection with his roots was life affirming - and surprising. A fresh look showed how wonderful the landscape is, the pace, and the people. And there was motivation to give back. 

(to Gianluca)
So you spent time in London and also in North America and Canada, and the US a little bit. Why did you decide to run for Mayor of Illorai?

Gianluca Grande  09:12
That's a good question. I don't know. I moved back to Illorai from Vancouver, and was just before Covid. So 2019, I'm keen to help, and keen to try to make things better if I can. And last June - June, 2024 - I became Mayor of Illorai. And this was because many people were asking me, “Why you don't run for mayor for us? You might be able to do good work, and, you know, get this town better.” I try to improve it and try to fix some of the issues. Although it is really hard to be a mayor, especially when you are running a small town.

Doug Still  10:11
I imagine. What are some of your biggest challenges?

Gianluca Grande  10:14
Well, the biggest challenge we have is the population, which is not only an issue of my town, but an issue of all of Sardinia. This happened because in 1956, Illorai was about 2000 people were here. But the production moved from the town to outside the town. Because in the just after the war, and even before and during the war, most of the products were made here. We are like tailors; we are carpenters; we are like, I don't know, we made our own bread; agriculture was very important. But after the war, this production got moved to the factories. Little by little, we started losing inhabitants, because all of the young people were looking for a job, were looking for a steady job, for a steady income. It started from 2000 residents, slowly, slowly, slowly, we became 730 residents. Everybody tries to find a better job. We are lacking services, like doctors. Here, we have restricted days for the family doctor, infrastructures. The aging population too. We have a good chunk of our population over their 60s. The younger population, basically, when they start studying at the university, then probably 2 out of 10 come back here in town. 

Doug Still  12:20
Well, you're one of the 2 in 10 that came back.

Gianluca Grande  12:23
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Doug Still  12:25
Some data I found on a website looked at a census done in 1607 - so the beginning of the 17th century - that said that there were 410 fuochi. What does fuochi mean?

Gianluca Grande  12:40
OK, it means fires, which means like households, like families. Back in those days, the families were about eight to 10 people.

Doug Still  12:55
So more than 2000 people, 3000 or more.

Gianluca Grande  12:59
Yeah.

Doug Still  13:00
It's interesting that fuochi means fire [yes], but also a family union…

Gianluca Grande  13:07
Yeah, yeah, hearths, like the family.

Doug Still  13:10
Like a hearth.That makes sense. I like that. 

It's not just the human population that has declined over the centuries, but the tree population too. The mountains had always been forested, interspersed with beautiful patchworks of meadow. The landscape supported the lives of agrarian people for 1000s of years. But in the 19th century, the tentacles of the industrial revolution reached their way into central Sardinia as mainland Italy searched for resources like timber and coal. Land reforms brought fencing and the privatization of commonly held lands. Deforestation began.

Gianluca Grande  13:48
It all started in the 1800s when the Savoy, the royal family of Sardinia, Piedmont and Sardinia, started invading in Sardinia and looking for opportunities. And they start cutting, basically, a good chunk of the forest in Sardinia to be used for the army to produce coal. And also with the construction of the railway in Sardinia, they start, basically, clearing the entire part of the forest of Sardinia. This was a part of the story that went from the mid 1800s up until early 1900. But then there was also the need of the population of Illorai to basically have firewood since back in the days, before the Second World War. During and just right after, there were not cars or trucks to carry firewood to the town. So the people of Illorai are cutting near the town, clearing the forest to cultivate wheat or vegetable gardens. The areas near our town, so basically all of that part nearby, got cleared.

Doug Still  15:29
Localized cutting happened for sure, but the forest leading upward from Illorai was still largely intact up until World War II. Local stories abound about the forest before the war, including from Gianluca’s family.

Gianluca Grande  15:43
Even my father, who was born in 1939, he remembers going there as a young guy, working on the piece of land with my grandfather to cultivate, basically, the vegetables in the forest. My grandfather used to say that the forest, before, when he was a kid - so we are talking about the early 1900s when he was a kid - that the forest was so dense that you couldn't see the sky. So walking inside the forest was a challenge, because you needed some landmarks to get out of the forest to avoid getting lost. And these landmarks were the monumental trees, or rocks, or nuragis.

Doug Still  16:35
I had the pleasure of meeting Pina Muras, an 86 year old matriarch of the town, who helped provide food and drink for us conference attendees, part of a larger group of local volunteers who were just wonderful. She has memories of the forest too. Gianluca helped interpret so she replied directly to him, and even brought up his family who she knew growing up.

Pina Muras 16:57
Okay. (In Italian…)

Voiceover  17:06
It really used to be a forest. As my mother and grandmother used to tell me, the trees were so thick that you couldn't see the light, and to find the way out of the woods they would make notches on the tree trunks to show the way. Then, around the 1940s, there was logging by a company from mainland Italy. They almost destroyed it completely. But after that, the forest managed to recover and it grew dense again. In 1956-1957 this area of Iscuvude was all vegetable gardens where potatoes and beans were grown. And on the other side of Iscuvude they would grow wheat. Your great grandmother and I walked up on foot from the village to bring food and pasta to the people working there on the threshing floor, like your grandfather. And I can tell you that the municipal lands from here all the way to the forest area were all used for sowing. Understand?

Doug Still  18:13
After the war, that all changed. For reference, Parco di Iscuvudè is where the monumental tree conference was held, now a scenic natural park with dense stands of native oaks and other species. It connects to woodlands at higher elevations, where Sa Melabrina stands. It's hard to imagine that for a period the land was completely barren. 

(to Gianluca)
You've shown me a photo from the 1970s of the land that is now the Parco di Iscuvudè. It was almost completely cleared of trees. When did the deforestation of Goceano and of Sardinia accelerate?

Gianluca Grande  18:52
Little by little, they started having trucks, having cars, and being able to afford, like, longer trips.

Doug Still  19:03
I see, things just sped up because of roads and trucks and equipment.

Gianluca Grande  19:08
Yeah, trucks and equipment. 

Doug Still  19:10
Sa Melabrina, the most beautiful oak tree, stood right in the way of human progress. In fact, when the cutters came through at one point, it was marked for removal with a big “X.” How did it survive? 

We're going to take a short break. When we come back, we'll hear the story told at the conference about how the tree was saved, told by the guy who saved it. We'll also hear from Professor Gianluigi Bacchetta about the features of the Downy Oak, and learn about the many oaks of Sardinia and their specific ecology. You're listening to This Old Tree. 

[theme music]

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[Choral Music - Illorai Chamber Ensemble]

Doug Still  20:53
I have to admit that except for several polite phrases I don't speak Italian. I could barely follow along during the speaking portion of the conference, although visuals helped. So it was without immediate understanding that I noticed one speaker in particular held the audience in rapt attention as he told a moving story. The speaker was Graziano Nudda, and I learned the specifics later from Gianluca.

Gianluca Grande  21:20
Yeah, the Graziano story is about the 1970s or 80s, I think. He was a young arborist that just graduated from the university. So basically, he saved the Melabrina tree from cutting because it was already being marked to be cut for firewood.

Doug Still  21:45
The wide-eyed forester, fresh out of the University of Sassari, accompanied forestry crews into the mountains of Goceano. He tried to square what he learned about forest ecology with what was happening on the ground. The old oak tree was different, though, and he found his nerve. Here's some of his story translated to English.

Graziano Nudda (voiceover) 22:06
“On a typical November morning in 1977, slightly foggy and drizzly, two forestry offices in the Bono station, whose jurisdiction ranged from Anela to Illorai, came to pick me up to go into the Illorai mountain area. There, they had already marked a section of woodland containing “over mature” trees, those that had reached an age considered beyond the rotation of their species, and were preparing to cut them, especially in the public communal lands. 

We arrived in the mountains within the municipal forest of Illorai in the area of Sa Melabrina. The concession holders were preparing their chainsaws and other necessary tools, while the three of us - the Brigadier Domenico Paba, Officer Mario Pisano, and myself - began inspecting the area designated for cutting. The forestry officers had already marked all the trees to be felled in order to meet the firewood needs of each concession holder residing in the municipality of Illorai. I still remember the multitude of century old trees in the area. Half of them were to be cut, and most were felled in those days. 

So we stopped in silence as soon as we reached the great San Melabrina oak, majestic and towering above the other still large trees of various species. Even this great tree had been marked with a stamp instead of the usual forestry hammer imprint placed on a smooth area at the base of the trunk. I remained silent, thinking back to Professor De Philippe's lesson on forest ecology and the importance of ancient trees: hollow and therefore sheltering wildlife; tall enough to host nests of various birds; producers of seeds useful for a progeny of dominant specimens; and much more. 

The forestry officers noticed my hesitation in an instant. They asked if I disagreed with cutting the tree, and they said there would be no problem in saving it without waiting for my response. Mario Pisano, who sadly passed away more than 20 years ago, went to find the concession holder assigned that tree. He returned a few minutes later with a man from Illorai holding a large chain saw ready to work. But he was told that a different tree would be assigned to him, perhaps in a more convenient location for felling and transport, because the tree had to remain standing. 

Nearly 50 years have passed, and the great oak is still doing well. It still hosts wildlife and now also thousands of visitors who could admire and imagine what Sardinia's forest, wildlife and waters once looked like.”

Gianluca Grande  24:56
So they passed by, and he said, “No, not this tree, not this time today. You're not going to cut this tree. You can move further down in the forest, find something else.” But he recognized the value of the tree, and thanks to him, we still have the Melabrina tree standing.

Doug Still  25:21
A shift in thinking was happening about what was important. It began in the universities, but took time to filter into government practices. Perhaps the unique ecology of Sardinia was worth preserving, in addition to its ancient archeological sites. To this day, Sa Melabrina is a symbol of this change.

Gianluca Grande  25:41
Well, around the 1990s, the Sardinian government decided to create a regional public forestry agency, which was called Ante Foresta de la Sardinia, which is now Forestas. It is a regional agency for the management of forest and the land of Sardinia. So it basically manages and protects large areas of the public forest and the rural land. Its work basically includes forest maintenance, the reforestation, the wildfire prevention, the biodiversity, and the habitat conservation. 

So since then, Graziano Nudda became, after 12 or 15 years from when he saved the tree, he became the Chief Director of this agency. And little by little, they started preserving the forest, replanting the forest. And there was also a shift in the population that started understanding the value of the forest and the value of the trees.

Doug Still  27:07
One fascinating ecological measure that Graziano spoke about was to allow livestock to stay within these communal forests and concession lands, and avoid fencing them out. This supported pastoral activity, reduced fire risk by eliminating dry herbaceous vegetation, and added manure to the soil. The new forest thrived. A past forestry professor labeled this “diplomatic silviculture,” a practice to the mutual benefit of local shepherds and forest managers. The patchwork of small meadows to be seen now in the forest is particularly beautiful, suggestive of the world of shepherds in classical mythology. I sidestepped quite a number of cow patties on our forest walk to Sa Melabrina. 

The old oak tree holds court in the middle of this relatively new forest. And it’s not the only one that survived the era of deforestation. Illorai is home to 40 monumental trees, a designation managed by the Ministry of Agriculture, Food and Forestry Policies in Rome since a Ministerial Decree was announced in 2013. Illorai has the highest number of monumental trees in Sardinia. Visiting Sa Melabrina and these other honored woodland denizens is a reason to explore these gorgeous landscapes and treat them as part of the local heritage.

(to Gianluca)
When did the concept of monumental trees gain your attention?

Gianluca Grande  28:37
I believe it was the early 2000’s, thanks to Professor Camarda, Ignazio Camarda. He started talking about the Melabrina tree in Illorai. In the books, they were still talking about the value of our forest here in our area. Little by little, the people of Illorai start going in the forest trying to find this, this tree that was known. For the people working like shepherds or people working for Forestas, they knew about this tree. But the common person like me didn't know. The citizens of Illorai started giving attention to the value of our forest, the value of Iscuvude, which as you have seen, we have plenty of monumental trees in the park. Little by little, the attention grew, and even my interest, since I have a degree in the landscape of architecture. So it's kind of like my background, more or less, and I also have a degree in agriculture.

Doug Still  29:58
Fantastic. They are so lucky to have a landscape architect as their mayor.

Gianluca Grande  30:03
Yeah, indeed.

Doug Still  30:06
Ignacio Camarda, he seemed like a very important figure for the history of trees and forestry in Sardinia. He was a professor?

Gianluca Grande  30:16
Yes, he was a very well known botanist in Sardinia, and he passed away January 2024. As me and Professor Bachetta were working on the conference, we started planning to invite Professor Camarda. Just a few days before we sent an invitation, an email, he passed away, so that's why we decided to remember him in this conference.

Doug Still  30:52
It was nice that he was honored.

Gianluca Grande  30:54
Yeah, yeah. 

Doug Still  30:56
Was he a poet?

Gianluca Grande  30:57
Yeah, he was a poet too. He wrote several books, and the wife just mailed me one of his books. Yeah, it's a book, full of like, text and poetry. An interesting person with many points of view.

Doug Still  31:15
I wish I could have met him. 

A tree was planted in Professor Camarda’s honor at the conclusion of the conference. Flurries of snow did not dampen the enthusiasm to grab shovels and honor him and his legacy. Two other trees were planted as well - one for Professor Edoardo Bondi who passed away in November 2024, and another for Professor Sandro Pignati who passed away in June 2025. 

The importance of scientific research permeated every lecture at the conference, and the connection between university and practice was inspirational. Gianluca mentioned that Professor Gianluigi Bacchetta of the University of Cagliari was a co-organizer. His influence was essential for bringing the right people together. He has published hundreds of papers on the flora of Sardinia, and is a towering figure in Mediterranean botany. 

With an amiable personality and sense of humor, he was also very approachable. Since no one knows more about the Downy Oak and Sardinia’s oak species in general, I pulled him aside at a quiet moment to learn more about the trees surrounding us. All the oaks were unfamiliar to me, and prepare yourself for a flurry of Latin names. If interested in learning more, I’ll list them out in the show notes for this episode. We were outside under a shelter. It was raining. 

(to Gianluigi Bacchetta)
Could you tell me your name and your position? 

Gianluigi Bacchetta  33:00
My name is Gianluigi Bachetta. I'm the director of the Center for the Conservation of Biodiversity and the Seed Bank of Sardinia of the University of Calgary. So I am full professor at the University of Cagliari.

Doug Still  33:01
I'm very honored to speak with you.

Gianluigi Bacchetta  33:03
Me too.

Doug Still  33:05
I'm going to ask you questions about the Downy Oak, Quercus pubescens.

Gianluigi Bacchetta  33:11
Yeah. In fact, in Sardinia, we don't have Quercus pubescens, sensu stricto, but we have some other taxa related to Quercus pubescens. In particular, we have in the coastal area Quercus virgiliana. In the central part of the island we have other two interesting Quercus named Quercus dalechampii and the endemic Quercus ichnusae. And in the upper part of central Sardinia, in particular in the Gennargentu Massif and in the Gocceano area, so here we have also Quercus congesta.

Doug Still  33:59
The professor listed a number of other Quercus species, the genus name for Oak.

Gianluigi Bacchetta  34:03
So in total we have eight Quercus species on our island.

Doug Still  34:09
I'm asking the right person. [both chuckle] So, Sa Melabrina….

Gianluigi Bacchetta  34:14
Melabrina is the most important Quercus dalechampii, in this case. 

Doug Still
Dalechampii. 

Gianluigi Bacchetta
Yes, the species Quercus dalechampii,  but we speak more in general of the Quercus pubescens group, and is the most important plant in Sardinia of this species. But around Sa Melabrina we have many other Quercus like this, with similar dimensions. So with a trunk and a circumference that reaches more than six meters and an age that's of many centuries, for sure.

Doug Still  35:00
So how long can they live?

Gianluigi Bacchetta  35:02
Normally, Quercus don't live more than 600-700 years. I’m quite sure that here in the Gocceano Massif  we have many plants that reach 400 or perhaps 500 years, but no more. Because in the past, people of Sardinia in this area used this land for grazing, and unfortunately, fire damage in this marvelous woods.

Doug Still  35:44
What's the common name for this tree in Italian?

Gianluigi Bacchetta  35:48
Roverella. Roverella is the common name. But depending on the area in Italy, we have other names. In this case, in Sardinia, we speak about chercu. Chercu is the name of the Roverella in the Sardinian language, because the Sardinian language is not a dialect of the Italian language. It's another language, totally independent.

Doug Still  36:21
Right. So, multiple names.

Gianluigi Bacchetta  36:24
Yeah, multiple names, for sure.

Doug Still  36:26
If an English speaking person says “Downy Oak,” is that accurate?

Gianluigi Bacchetta  36:31
Yeah, it's accurate, yeah.

Doug Still  36:33
Ok great. How do we recognize a Downy Oak?

Gianluigi Bacchetta  36:38
We have different character, morphological character, based on the leaves in this case, and also based on the fruit. So the fruit, it's important to recognize…

Doug Still
… the acorns. 

Gianluigi Baccetta
Yeah, for sure.

Doug Still  37:02
There's a downy layer of hairs on the underside of the leaves.

Gianluigi Bacchetta  37:07
Yeah, yeah.

Doug Still  37:08
Also on the buds, I've noticed.

Gianluigi Bacchetta  37:10
Yeah, this character, it's common to all the species related to the Quercus pubescens group. It's very important, the hair on the underside of the leaf.

Doug Still  37:26
We walked around a bit, and he described how the climate changes at higher altitudes, which changes the species composition.

Gianluigi Bacchetta  37:33
In Sardinia, we have the dominance of the Mediterranean climate. But when we go up in this central and northern part of Sardinia, we have a mixture of temperate climate and the Mediterranean climate. So we stay here in a condition that is not properly Mediterranean. It's temperate.

Doug Still  37:57
I've noticed that the oaks have ferns on the branches. Moss and lichens.

Gianluca Grande  38:05
Yeah.

Doug Still  38:06
That takes quite a bit of moisture in order for that…

Gianluigi Bacchetta  38:08
Yeah for sure. Here, the mean precipitation, it's around 1200 millimeters per year. But we also have a good amount of crypto precipitation. So the clouds stay here 

Doug Still
…fog…

Gianluigi Bacchetta
…the fog. For this reason, we have many lichens on the stem, and many ferns. In particular, the most common fern, it's Polypodium cambricum, like this (shows Doug).

Doug Still  38:45
It's quite its own ecosystem up there.

Gianluigi Bacchetta  38:48
Yeah, it's an ecosystem because it's not a tree. It's a tree with moss, lichens….

Doug Still  38:58
…over time, soil.

Gianluigi Bacchetta  39:00
Yeah, for sure. Many, many places it is possible to find different mammals or birds that live in this tree.

Doug Still  39:12
Very interesting. I think oaks support more life than almost any other species.

Gianluigi Bacchetta  39:18
Yeah.

Doug Still  39:19
Insects, birds, mammals.

Gianluigi Bacchetta  39:22
Yeah.

Doug Still  39:22
Have you written papers about the oaks? Probably many papers.

Gianluigi Bacchetta  39:27
Yeah. In fact, I described Quercus ichnusae in 1999. After, I described all the wood in the island, and in 2009 I published a monograph of all the vegetation of the Sardinian Island and the vegetation map of Sardinia.

Doug Still  39:51
Fantastic.

Gianluigi Bacchetta  39:52
I’ll send to you all these maps.

Doug Still  39:54
They should name the oak after you. (both laugh)

Sa Melabrina.

Gianluigi Bacchetta  40:00
Sa Melabrina.

Doug Still  40:01
Did I pronounce that, okay?

Gianluigi Bacchetta  40:02
Yeah.

Doug Still  40:03
What makes that tree special?

Gianluigi Bacchetta  40:06
Because of the shape, the morphology of the plant, the place we can find these plants. It's a very beautiful, ancient wood in the middle of landscape, total wilderness. So all these aspects permit us to recognize Sa Melabrina. And for sure, the dimension of the plant.

Doug Still  40:31
The dimension, yes. 

So the forest has come back, and everything's good, right? Not so fast. After a couple of centuries of prospectors tapping Sardinia for its resources, Gianluca and others know that the job of defending their forests, towns, and way of life is never over. 

[Theme music]

After a short break, I talk some more with the mayor about what some outside corporations are eyeing now: Sardinia’s wind and sunlight. You're listening to This Old Tree. 

[Choral music - Illorai Choral Ensemble]

Modern day Sardinians hold a fierce protective stance toward their land and culture. Like an ancient river,  it flows just below their friendly exterior. To fully understand it, we need to look back to 1969. An event occurred in the small highland town of Orgosolo that was formative for the older generation who witnessed it, and now younger Sardinians who’ve come to appreciate it with reverence and pride. 

Known as the Pratobello Uprising, Pratobello was a communal pasture that the people of Orgosolo had worked for generations. In May of 1969, the Italian Government, specifically the Ministry of Defense, ordered shepherds to leave their land so that it could be transformed to a military firing range. For locals, the decree threatened their relationship with the land and their very livelihood. 

In June, just a few weeks later, civil resistance began that echoed actions seen abroad in the 1960s. From a town of about 4,500 people, 3,500 men and women, including children and elders, occupied the pastures in peaceful protest. It was unprecedented in Sardinia. They brought their tents, cooking equipment, animals, and music. There were no violent clashes, no vandalism, no weapons. After ten days, the Italian army abandoned the project and withdrew. The protest entered Sardinian history as a victory for local will and unity. If you visit Orgosolo today you will see murals throughout the town celebrating the event.

Flash forward to 2024. The “Legge Pratobello” or Pratobello Law was passed by the Autonomous Region of Sardinia to protect agricultural and pastoral landscapes from new forms of external pressure. It is a statute that requires the mandatory involvement of municipalities in authorizing projects that potentially swallow up chunks of territory with high environmental impact. Pratobello ‘24 had popular support, and was inspired by the uprising of 1969. It was meant to address new threats. 

What kind of new threats? Gianluca explains.

Doug Still
You mentioned that certain big industries from outside of Sardinia have been eyeing the island for development in recent years. Could you talk about that a little bit more?

Gianluca Grande  44:01
Well, Sardinia is basically at the center of intense debate about large scale wind farms and solar farms that are no needed here. Basically, we are suffering about this project forced by the government and the big companies to transform our landscape into something else.

Doug Still  44:31
Oh, good heaven. It's hard to think of a better way to divide environmentalists who love renewable energy than to impose it on sensitive natural areas. It makes me think of a battle in my home state of Rhode Island over solar companies clear cutting whole sections of forests in order to install fields of solar panels. It's cheaper for them that way. One valuable resource was being traded for another. Thankfully, the outcry led to legislation that brings smarter, more holistic planning. That is exactly what happened in Sardinia.

Gianluca Grande  45:04
We do have some of these solar parks and wind farms, but the way they want to invade all of the territory of Sardinia is something that the people of Sardinia don't like. We want to be part of the decision, and not just one entity that has to, you know, agree without speaking. 

Some of the tension generated a civic movement that is called Pratobello ‘24, which is an initiative that 200,000 people in Sardinia signed up for, basically asking the regional government of Sardinia to take some actions about it and to regulate this kind of like installation, and let the people of the territory speak about it if they want it or do not want it. It's something that impacts the landscape, and I can tell you, it's something that I'm really keen on, because when I graduated in 2010 my final project was about how to build a solar park into a forest. My point was to say, hey, we can do this in a certain way - how we can let the green energy get along within the landscape.

Doug Still  46:44
And how we can find balance.

Gianluca Grande  46:47
Yeah, find the balance. Yeah. Find, find the compromise between getting the green energy without destroying the landscape.

Doug Still  46:59
The effort made Gianluca think about Sa Melabrina and the other ancient trees across Sardinia, disconnected and vulnerable. Perhaps they should be part of this conversation too. The monumental tree network idea was born. 

(to Gianluca)
One thing I admire about you is that you also have the vision and energy to think beyond your own town. Why did you organize the recent conference of monumental trees?

Gianluca Grande  47:23
Well, thank you. Thank you very much for that. So the idea - I was reading about all of the monumental trees that we have in Sardinia, which are many. Because I think that there are around 400 or 300 or something, I don't remember the right number now. So, I was reading about all of different stories about one tree is over here, one tree is over there, and blah, blah, blah, but we are all facing the same issues. Like how to improve the access and preserve these trees - kind of find the right tool to let people visit the tree, and how to preserve the tree from the visitors too. 

So I started thinking, why? Why don't put all of our energies in just one place, and use this tool to have some leverage, to ask for funds, to ask for whatever we need to preserve this great value that we have in Sardinia, because a tree is not like a building, A building, you can preserve it. You can rebuild the building. But a tree, when it's burnt, is burnt. When it's cut, it dies. There is no second chance.

Doug Still  48:52
They need a different sort of protection.

Gianluca Grande  48:54
Yeah, yeah. Sort of protection, to protect, to enhance the value somehow, and to let people of Sardinia know the great treasure that we have. So I started working on a document that I sent to more than 120 municipalities, asking them to join this network. And since the conference, I still get informed phone calls of mayors willing to join, to join us, and sign the document.

Doug Still  49:37
So you invited mayors from all across Sardinia. How many came to the conference?

Gianluca Grande  49:43
There were around - between the conference and after there were around the 30 municipalities that signed it and took part in the agreement called "Rete Sarda Alberi Monumentali," which is the Sardinian Network of Monumental Trees.

Doug Still  50:03
The signing ceremony was really something. After important speeches, the thirty Sardinian mayors lined up in front of the room with Gianluca Grande at the center. All were wearing matching shoulder sashes of red, white, and green, the colors of the Italian flag. Then they took turns signing the document pledging their commitment to the monumental tree network, the “Rete Sarda Alberi Monumentali.” Everyone in the room snapped pictures with their phones. I’ve been to a lot of tree ceremonies, but none quite like this.

(to Gianluca)
What was the purpose of that document?

Gianluca Grande  50:40
The purpose was an agreement to work together for the same goal, basically protecting and trying to give the right value to those trees. Find a way to preserve them and let people know about the story of the trees and let them visit.

Doug Still  51:04
I asked Gianluca how the tree network might contribute to redirecting land grabs by international green industry companies.

Gianluca Grande  51:13
Well, my hope is like to be able as a network to stand up and have the government of Sardinia make a law or some regulation about avoiding the wind farms and the solar farms in the areas where we have a concentration or a specific monumental tree. Some other areas that we have, like some industrial areas that are no longer in use, we can focus on reusing those areas. But not near a landscape that has an identity. The identity is basically represented by the monumental tree that has been there for probably 1000 years. We need a critical mass. We need to build a community of people that are going toward that direction.

Doug Still  52:19
There's one other benefit that Gianluca has alluded to, and it's a big one. Ecotourism. If done right and promoted collectively, a monumental tree network is a potential boon to Sardinia's struggling towns.

Gianluca Grande  52:34
The purpose of the document is basically to find a connection between all of the municipalities and all of the territories, while inviting people and tourists to visit them.

Doug Still  52:52
Well, I think it's a great way to travel around Sardinia - to look at monumental trees, to see the nuraghe, to see the history, to eat the wonderful food and meet people.

Gianluca Grande  53:05
Yeah.

Doug Still  53:05
I think traveling to see trees is one of the most interesting things you can do.

Gianluca Grande  53:10
And my great hope is like to have a national network, or even a European network, because the more we are, the better we can work on protecting these trees.

Doug Still  53:29
Or worldwide network.

Gianluca Grande  53:31
Or a worldwide network. Well, I didn't want to say that, because it was too much, but yeah, I love that. 

Doug Still
I think you're part of it. You are part of it. 

How can celebrating Sa Melabrina and your other monumental trees help Illorai?

Gianluca Grande  53:49
in my point of view, the issue is, like many people, my citizens are waiting for something that comes from outside of our community to save our community. They still have the mentality, looking for something that comes from outside of our town, outside of our territory, to save us. And instead, for me, it is the other way. We should use what we have here to grow and improve ourselves and save our town however we can, instead of waiting for somebody else or something else coming for us.

Doug Still  54:34
What Illorai has, is their natural heritage. Charming old trees worth visiting due to their great beauty as well as local stories that span time from the ancient past to the present day. Of course, Ecotourism brings people to restaurants and B&B’s as well as the trees and nuraghe. And just maybe, former townspeople might return to Illorai to rediscover it, just as Gianluca did.

[sounds of nature and distant voices]

Back to the tour and  event at Sa Melabrina. I met so many interesting people and spoke with as many as I could. One gentleman was an arborist named Carlo Poddi who performed sonic tomography recently on one of the oak tree’s main branches that was a cause for concern. It is a non-invasive diagnostic method to detect internal decay by measuring the speed of sound waves through the wood.

Could you state your name?

Carlo Poddi  55:32
Carlo Poddi. Arborist from Sardinia.

Doug Still  55:39
And what are we looking at? You're showing me with a pointer on the tree…

Carlo Poddi  55:43
On the tree, the breaking of this, because the branch is too long. And it it is a branch that can cause very big damage. The branch was broken many, many years ago.

Doug Still  55:58
Yes, and it's twisted, with new growth at the bottom.

Carlo Poddi  56:02
Yeah, yeah. This branch is the only - this side has vitality, and the other side the branch keeps the vitality. Because you see the whole branch is becoming - it's coming down.

Doug Still  56:25
Yes, they're falling. 

I had some middle school kids following me around because they were taking English in school and wanted to test it out on me. We had some silly fun. 

(to the kids)
How do you say, "Oh my god."

Kids  56:40
O-M-G!.  

Doug Still  56:43
OMG, that’s right.

Gianluca Grande  56:44
Oh my gosh, my goodness.

Doug Still  56:48
And you know what “6-7” is?

Kids  56:50
Six seven! Six seven!

Gianluca Grande  56:55
I'm old. I'm in my 40s. I don't know…

Doug Still
Grazie.

Kids
Prego.

Doug Still  57:02
Then I ran it to Gianluigi Bacchetta again and got his views on the conference. 

(to Gianluigi Bacchetta)
What would you say is the main takeaway, the main message of the conference this week?

Gianluigi Bacchetta  57:19
For sure that we need to go in a direction that permits us to work together, all together, because life is for sharing. We need to share information. We need to collaborate. In a place like Sardinia, it's very important, the collaboration between university, regional agencies like AGRIS, Forestas, and the territorial community. So we need to work all together to protect and to valorize this incredible heritage that is not for us, it's for our children and for the future.

Doug Still  58:08
Gianluca was working the crowd, telling stories about the tree.

Gianluca Grande  58:13
Many years ago, they set up a fire inside the trunk, that is hollow. It was hollow at the time, and basically, back in the days, my grandpa used to say that the shepherds, they were able to feed up to 12 ships inside.

Doug Still  58:31
Amazing. It's hard to imagine now.

Gianluca Grande  58:33
Oh yeah. But if you can see there are, like, many stones all around the tree. It would just enclose the barrier and leave them inside there, especially when there was up to 60 centimeters of snow in winter. So very, very cold, right?

Doug Still  58:52
And it would have been in the shepherds?

Gianluca Grande  58:54
Yes.

Doug Still  58:59
This tree played a big part in bringing us together. The town saved the 900 year old Downy Oak from the axe, a symbol of survival, memory, and hope. Now perhaps the tree can return the favor, and help save the town. 

Here’s the last passage of Ignazio Camarda’s poem, “The Most Beautiful Oak.”

When I pass by again in a hundred years, alone, two or three,
I would like to see
in the same place
those holm oaks, those hawthorns,
those wild cherry trees
and the red December holly,
which I gathered without harm,

to cheer the heart
filled with winter fog.
Then, I would like to remind
those who can still listen
to the water flowing over the stones
and the sound of the grass growing
that to have everything
all that's needed is the shade of a centuries-old oak.

[Outro - choral music]

Doug Still  1:00:11
Thank you listeners, for joining in to hear about Sa Melabrina. I hope you enjoyed the journey to Sardinia to learn about their love of monumental trees.  And thanks to ALL the people I met who agreed to be interviewed and share their stories - Professor Gianluigi Bacchetta, Pina Muras, Graziano Nudda, and Carlo Poddi. Most of all of course, I need to thank Mayor Gianluca Grande for his wonderful interview, his thorough research, hospitality, and leadership. NONE of this would have been possible without him. 

I wish I could mention everyone I met, but I’d like to single out the volunteers from Illorai who made all of the delicious pasta, bread, and Sardinian dishes we ate at every meal, and especially the locally made Cannonau wine. Gianluca explained that they are a nonprofit organization called Porloco. So warm and friendly. A couple of them sing in a local church choir, and yes, they have been singing the beautiful  music we’ve been listening to. Thank you so much for sharing it!

Much appreciation to the voice-over readers Manuela Buananno and Jeff Taliaferro. As usual, the show’s theme music is by Dee Lee. Visit the show website at thisoldtree.show, transcripts will become available soon. Follow us on Facebook and Instagram to see photos of Sa Melabrina and the people who we’ve met. The podcast is now a sponsored project of the New England Chapter of the International Society of Arboriculture. Visit newenglandisa.org to learn more about this great organization. 

Thanks again for listening. I’m Doug Still, and this is This Old Tree.

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